Socratic Seminar Journal

Rama is inclined to sympathize with Sugreeva because he too lost his wife to a creature so arrogant he believes nothing can stand in his way. Both Vali and Rama make compelling arguments as whether or not Rama’s actions were right. Vali believes that by hiding in the bushes and striking him down while unarmed, Rama has lost all his judgment after losing his wife and now his morals are null and void, a perfectly logical assumption considering everything. Rama did in fact disregard tactical warfare and went ahead and killed Vali amidst a fight he was having with his brother. The general rule of thumb is to not use a weapon against an unarmed man nor gang up on a person in a fight. Point to Vali. Rama then pointed out that what Vali did to Sugreeva was none too righteous either. He vowed to murder him or usurping the throne –though he did no such thing—chased him out of the kingdom and stole his wife. My personal philosophy is that even though I’m seething with rage, I listen to the other person’s side. It’s only right because more often than not, there is more to it than meets the eye. Vali calls out Rama on that though and says “In our society there is no such thing as wedlock” and that he was just protecting her while Sugreeva was out. He was just doing what his society has dictated as okay, but Rama points out that any being with the ability to think and reason knows better than to take someone who is committed to another for your own. That’s called cheating and I’m against that with every fiber of my being. There is never a time when that is ok. Rama ultimately convinced Vali of his actions, because in the end he was honoring all that he had promised and doing it in a way that everything would work out.

Politics and international relationships are a lot like this. People promise to do things without really weighing all the options. (Rama) Relationships with allied countries can get strained, and can get bloody if one side feels like the other is trying to one-up them (Sugreeva and Vali) once “brothers” can turn on their kin for power. This happens with politicians seeking election and again with allied countries. Governments can do things that are alright in their country, but seem downright wrong in another. In warfare, as seen in more modern wars, traditional tactics are completely forgotten. Take Vietnam for example, they fought dirty much like Rama did with Vali. This chapter characterizes to government so well, that I can’t help but think it’s maybe written to emulate it.

Final Journal

Journal: What evidence is there that the final battle is a spiritual or psychological one, rather than a literal one.  Think about what clues are given, and how they connect with Hinduism




Some evidence supporting a spiritual battle over a literal one is in the "weapons" they use. Some of the weapons aren't really weapons at all, just concepts. The "Gnana" is one such example. "Gnana" is literally wisdom. Rama sends forth wisdom to combat the illusions or "Maya" Ravanna has sent forth. It reminds me of Pokemon cards; you throw down a card that has a special power that defeats your enemies, but no actual fighting takes place. They also use pray a whole heck of a lot before doing anything, making sure the god's give their blessings on their attacks. That's a definite connection to Hinduism as they make sure everything will appease the gods before doing it so as not to wreck their kharma. Rama's final blow to Ravanna shows more evidence to a spiritual war as it attacked his heart, his being, rather than his physical self. Ravanna had taken care to protect his physical being, but didn't protect his heart, the thing that matters most to Hindus.

Where do you see evidence that Ravanna is too powerful, that the dharmic order of the cosmos is being upset? 


Ravanna is able to change the seasons. He gets too hot after hearing about Sita and plunges the world into nighttime, then into winter, then back to the sun, then into total darkness all in the same day. It confused the crap out of the worlds inhabitants and completely messed up the order of the cosmos. Ravanna also has kings in his court who will not put their hands down for fear they will be killed for not bing able to bow properly when the time comes. He too has gods under his control. It's too much power for one being to have and so Vishnu has come to restore order.

Ramayana Journal 1

Initially, I noticed that the wording seemed really stunted. it was so formal and it read like a robot was speaking it was also very wordy as we discussed prior to reading it.
I struggled so much with the names but i found if i read it aloud it was much better, probably because this was originally an oral story.